That’s right- and nice gals don’t do much better. Drs. Livingston, Judge, and Hurst presented these findings on Monday (15 Aug 2011) to the Academy of Management in San Antonio. It is expected to be published in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, soon (however, it is not yet approved in final form).
It seems that “agreeable” men earn about 18% less ($9772) while women earn 5% ($1828) less than non-agreeable counterparts. The study analyzed survey results from some 10000 employees in a variety of different professions.The definition of “agreeable” included valuing relationships and demonstrating altruism (the good of the group over their own interests), being warm, sympathetic, kind, and cooperative. The compensation of these folks were compared with those who were the most self-interested and aggressive.
The studies involved individuals enrolled in three different longitudinal studies: the National Longitudinal Surveys of Youth (NLSY97), the National Survey of Midlife Development in the United States (MIDUS), the Wisconsin Longitudinal Study,
It’s my conclusion that, despite our rhetoric, we consider folks who are disagreeable to be somehow more competent and able to achieve the company’s goals. And, since women tend to score more agreeable than men (in general), it may explain part of the wage gap that exists between the genders in the marketplace.
Roy, I think the gender wage gap has many more reasons that women being “too agreeable.” What I find more interesting is that agreeable men make so much less than their male counterparts. Is that the Harvey Milktoast syndrome? We can’t value a man because he gets along with others? Fascinating (to quote Mr. Spock). Our society is messed up in this regard for sure.
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Lisbeth:
This article provoked many irksome questions. And, it’s why I changed the posting order for my blogs- as soon as I heard about the session, I obtained the paper. I studied it. And, decided to publish my thoughts with their findings to provoke further discussion.
And, it has.
Let’s hope it provokes changes in the workplace compensation, too!
Roy just wanted to clarify (in case the internet meanies think this article gives them the right to act like complete blockheads, lol) by agreeable you mean a “yes ma’am, yes sir” type of person who agrees with the group even though it is against their personal values and not agreeable in the sense of pleasant or polite, correct?
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This article gives no one any rights, Karla! But, it clearly explains how business rewards its team members (employees, managers, leaders). And, it may explain why women have been historically lower paid than their male counterparts.
Rooy
I saw a report on these studies on the news last night. People who are “self-interested and aggressive” probably make their work a higher priority and work longer hours ~ I can see where they would come out ahead of the workers who don’t take their job so seriously.
I do think that many aggressive, hard working people can also be pleasant and good team players. I like the nice guys/gals.
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Janette:
We are confusing our vernacular beliefs with the psychological evaluations of the subject matter.
Here are the attributes as defined as part of the Big Five traits: The seven adjectives assessing agreeableness were: (a) helpful; (b) friendly; (c) warm; (d) caring; (e) softhearted; (f) outspoken; and (g) sympathetic. This has nothing to do with hard working or aggressive per se…
Thanks for your comments.
Roy
This was interesting and although it wasn’t meant to be funny I chuckled at “Drs. Livingston, Judge and Hurst.” All I could think of after that was, “Mr. Livingston I presume?” and Groucho’s joke about the lawyers. I have obviously been up too long.
Earning less money and staying nice to people is worth more to me than making more money and being a jerk. Than again I believe in Karma, so the reward I receive will be worth more then the money I have to leave behind.
Jenni:
I have to agree with you. And, to be honest, I strongly considered the ordering of the authors: Judge, Hurst, and Livingston.
Loved your comments. Thanks for dropping in…
Roy
After reading your post it seems the right thing to do would be disagree. But I can’t help but agree. Sadly, it makes sense.
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Bonnie:
Thanks for having me laugh at these disconcerting findings.
Roy
I think the problem lies when someone is ‘too’ agreeable. If agreeable is not listening to yourself…’no sticking to your guns’… ‘not following your gut’…then I can clearly understand why this chart is true.
Elise recently posted..Scattered Promises
Elise:
That is an interesting point. One that has great merit. However, the article uses the psychological evaluation of the Five Traits, which is a little more complex than the concept of the vernacular “agreeable”.
Let’s look at the next generation of research on this topic.
Roy
This does not make me smile.
Jodi recently posted..Live an Empowered Life: Determine Your Values and the Mark You Want to Make on the World
Jodi:
There’s a long line of people ticked at these facts.
We need to work at changing them!
Roy
Roy, that’s an interesting study – perhaps I should be more prickish as a developmental goal for 2011? Good stuff!
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Tor-
This entire issue is troubling to me- as I reported earlier on our discussion page. And, you can see my comments to Amanda which bring up the situational ethics of this entire fact.
One only hopes the next generation of corporations will be run by better equipped leaders.
Roy
I heard about this on the news yesterday. My first thought was, “Well you’ve gotta be somewhat aggressive to move ahead!”
Amanda recently posted..C25K aka… Getting My Butt In Shape….
Amanda:
It’s not that simple….
1. There is no doubt that corporations and small businesses want “agreeable” relations between themselves and their customers/clients.
2 There is no doubt that corporations and small businesses want “agreeable” relations between their leaders and their staff- and among their staff.
Yet, it is clear that this is not the method of rewarding said performances. Not only may this explain the gender gap- but it explains why customer service agents are so underpaid in the corporate hierarchy…
Roy
Hummm—interesting is right. I strike a balance to say I agree and disagree here.
What scale does that put me on if I am both nice and not so nice?
Veronica:
I have real problems with this entire issue, too.
It depends upon the situation- which may explain our entire economic fiasco, as well.
Situational ethics are the norm. Let’s make profits. Let’s get folks to make nice to customers and clients. Let’s not pay them well.
I don’t have the answers… even though I wish I did…
Roy
Such a sad state of affairs. I have not been in an office environment for years and wouldn’t want to be there now. I think people have lost the art of diplomacy and getting what they want through civilized means. From what I’ve heard from many of my office friends, it’s commonplace to deal with screaming, swearing and backstabbing at the highest levels. This report just seems to confirm that sadly. Thanks for the post, Roy! ~ Suerae
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Wow. This may be a second reply, Suerae- but my blog shows that the reply was not recorded.
I agree wholeheartedly.
It’s amazing that business wants its staff to deal with customers/clients in a sympathetic and helpful fashion- but reward the opposite behavior behind their closed doors.
I know that for our firm and the several for whom we serve as interim/surrogate CFO/COO/CEO’s that is nor the norm. We reward performance. We eliminate those that are not helpful or sympathetic.
I can’t stop the world. I don’t want to get off. But, I can work to change one element at a time.
Oh, and I loved the crayons!
Roy
The question I have is what is a nice person for this study? Is it someone who just accepts everything, puts their head down and gets the job done and is a not nice person someone who is bad tempered.
I think it may be looking more at the person who stands up for themselves as opposed to those who just take it. The truly nasty get managed out quickly now.
Interesting point of view though
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Roberta:
I probably should have cited the psychological definition of “agreeable” within the article. (Maybe I will add it as a PS.)
The seven adjectives assessing agreeableness were: (a) helpful; (b) friendly; (c) warm; (d) caring; (e) softhearted; (f) outspoken; and (g) sympathetic
Roy
Agreeable is quite a general term, but I take it to mean a bit of a ‘yes’ person, nice, gets along well with everyone, nothings too much trouble – Ive got it down pat!
I dont think its about other’s perceptions necessarily that non agreeable people are more competent, but perhaps the attributes of the non-agreeables themselves. Generalising I know, but many successful business men and women are that way because their not always agreeable but do what it takes to be successful with a certain emotional detachment.
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OK, Maureen, that could be true, but the psychological definition of agreeable is a little more honed than our vernacular concept.
The seven adjectives assessing agreeableness: (a) helpful; (b) friendly; (c) warm; (d) caring; (e) softhearted; (f) outspoken; and (g) sympathetic. So, when they are sympathetic and helpful, they could still be considered “agreeable”
Either way, I’m glad I’m the CEO- I get to pick “agreeable” people. That’s the only kind we want. It’s important for our team and more important for our clients!
Roy
Have you noticed that most CEO’s are very tall. Malcolm Gladwell in Blink noticed an “unconscious prejudice” towards shorter people. CEOs are on average about three inches taller than the rest of us. We seem to unconsciously put Alpha males in charge. I am not saying that Alpha males are necessarily aggressive, but it is an interesting observation.
Danny recently posted..Manifesting Change by Mike Dooley
Danny:
I could say I noticed that- but I was informed of that fact some 45 years ago by my next door neighbor! He was positive he was going to get the promotion he wanted because he was the taller one. He had quoted (darned if I remember the source from way back then) an article he had read.
Oh, yes- he did get the promotion.
Thanks for dropping in and sharing your excitement here!
Roy
Roy! You’ve thrilled me! I am going to be far less agreeable, much more demanding, and insist on my due. Thanks for the tip. Look out, world. Here comes Paula! ;D
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That’s great, Paula!
I knew you had it in you.
I expect you to share your salary increase with me 🙂
Roy
Great Post, Roy! Very provoking!
Funny how all the comments (mine included) assume that we stand by the agreeable party. The truth is that we can’t be really sure about how our fellows perceive us. You may swear you are nice and your colleges still may consider you a jerk. I guess we will have to check our paycheck to find out.
Gustavo| Frugal Science recently posted..When In Doubt, Meditate.
Loved the last sentence, Gustavo! Until my monthly check has 2 commas, I guess I’ll recognize that I’m still to agreeable!
So really this study is saying is that it pays to rock the boat. Hmmm. I’ve often said that the last thing I want people to say about me is how “nice” I am or how they “like” me. Passionless words! I want to be more than that so if that means I not agreeable so be it. Thanks for letting me know about one more study that proves my point, Roy! 😀
Sherrie Koretke recently posted..Five Ways to Indulge in Luxury Now
Glad to oblige, Sherrie!
Thanks for dropping in and commenting.
Roy
People pleasers always finish last because there’s nothing special about them – they do what everyone else wants them to do. How can that be respected?
Leaders brave new paths and have the confidence that says, “I don’t know what’s there, but I know I can count on myself to handle whatever’s there.” While this article is good, there’s nothing surprising about it to me.
Ted recently posted..SEOPressor: Worthy Of Its Price Tag?
Ted:
I am in absolute agreement with what you wrote. But, that is NOT the definition used by psychologist for “agreeableness”.
The seven adjectives assessing agreeableness were: (a) helpful; (b) friendly; (c) warm; (d) caring; (e) softhearted; (f) outspoken; and (g) sympathetic
So, yes, (e) would qualify as you used it. But, the other definitions- I am not sure that would fall under people pleasers.
Roy
Great post Roy. This is very interesting information. Kind of makes me think …. damn if you do and damn if you don’t! Why do we have these gender gaps anyway? You would think after all these generations that we would not always have to be a ‘divided’ human personality. Wondering when my son gets married how his kids will rate on a study like this. lol
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Lynn:
You said it!
We can only hope that the next generations will be much smarter than us. However, looking at the next (younger) generation obtaining in Congress, leaves me great pause in my deliberations…
Roy
Ah I always thought this was the case. I need to stop being so god damn nice!
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And, what could I add to that sentiment?